Frank Sinatra, Joe Hyams - Playboy Interview: Frank Sinatra lyrics

All right, let's start with the most basic
Question there is: Are
You a religious man? Do you believe in God?

Well, that'll do for openers i
Think I can sum up
My religious feelings in a couple
Of paragraphs first: I
Believe in you and me i'm
Like Albert Schweitzer and Bertrand
Russell and Albert Einstein in that I have a
Respect for life - in any form i believe in
Nature, in the birds, the sea, the sky
In everything
I can see or that there is real evidence for
If these things are what you mean by God
Then I believe in God but I
Don't believe in a personal
God to whom I look for comfort or for a
Natural on the next roll of
The dice i'm not unmindful


Of man's seeming need for faith
I'm for anything that
Gets you through the night, be it prayer
Tranquilizers or a bottle of Jack
Daniel's but to me religion
Is a deeply personal thing in which man and
God go it alone together
Without the witch doctor in
The middle the witch
Doctor tries to convince us that we
Have to ask God for help
To spell out to him what
We need, even to bribe him with prayer
Or cash on the line well
I believe that God knows what each of us
Wants and needs it's not necessary for us
To make it to church on Sunday to
Reach Him you can find Him anyplace
And if that sounds heretical, my source is
Pretty good: Matthew, Five to Seven
The Sermon on the Mount

You haven't found any answers for
Yourself in organized religion?

There are things about organized
Religion which I resent
Christ is revered as the Prince of Peace
But more blood has been shed in His name than
Any other figure in history you show me
One step forward in the name of religion and
I'll show you a
Hundred retrogressions remember, they were
Men of God who destroyed
The educational treasures at
Alexandria, who perpetrated the
Inquisition in Spain
Who burned the witches at
Salem over 25, 000 organized religions
Flourish on this planet
But the followers of each think all
The others are miserably misguided
And probably evil as
Well in India they worship white cows
Monkeys and a dip
In the Ganges the Moslems accept
Slavery and prepare for Allah
Who promises wine and revirginated women and
Witch doctors aren't just in
Africa if you look
In the LA papers of a Sunday morning
You'll see the local variety
Advertising their wares
Like suit's with two pairs of pants

Hasn't religious faith just as often
Served as a civilizing influence?

Remember that leering, cursing lynch mob in
Little Rock reviling a meek
Innocent little 12-year-old Negro girl
As she tried to
Enroll in public school? Weren't they - or
Most of them - devout churchgoers? I detest
The two-faced who pretend liberality but are
Practiced bigots in their own
Mean little spheres i
Didn't tell my daughter whom to marry
But I'd have broken her back
If she had had big eyes for a bigot as I
See it, man is a product of his conditioning
And the social forces which mold his
Morality and conduct - including
Racial prejudice - are influenced more
By material things like food
And economic necessities than by the
Fear and awe and bigotry
Generated by the high priests of
Commercialized superstition now don't
Get me wrong i'm for decency -
Period i'm for anything and
Everything that bodes love and consideration
For my fellow man
But when lip service to some
Mysterious deity permit's bestiality on
Wednesday and absolution on Sunday
- cash me out

But aren't such spiritual hypocrites in a
Minority? Aren't most Americans fairly
Consistent in their conduct within the
Precepts of religious doctrine?

I've got no quarrel with men of
Decency at any level but
I can't believe that decency stems
Only from religion and
I can't help wondering how many
Public figures make avowals of
Religious faith to maintain an
Aura of respectability our
Civilization, such as it is
Was shaped by religion
And the men who aspire to public
Office anyplace in the free
World must make obeisance to God
Or risk immediate opprobrium our
Press accurately reflects the religious
Nature of our society
But you'll notice that it
Also carries the articles and
Advertisements of astrology and
Hokey Elmer Gantry revivalists we
In America pride
Ourselves on freedom of the press, but every
Day I see, and so do you
This kind of dishonesty and distortion not
Only in this area but
In reporting - about guys
Like me, for instance
Which is of minor importance except to
Me but also in reporting world
News how can a free people
Make decisions without facts? If
The press reports world news as
They report about me, we're in trouble

Are you saying that

No, wait, let me finish have you thought of
The chance I'm taking by
Speaking out this way? Can you
Imagine the deluge of crank letters, curses
Threats and obscenities I'll receive
After these remarks gain
General circulation? Worse, the boycott of
My records, my films
Maybe a picket line at my opening at
The Sands why? Because I've dared
To say that love and decency are
Not necessarily concomitants of
Religious fervor

If you think you're stepping over the line
Offending your public or
Perhaps risking economic suicide, shall we
Cut this off now
Erase the tape and start over
Along more antiseptic lines?

No, let's let it run i've
Thought this way for years
Ached to say these things whom
Have I harmed by
What I've said? What moral defection
Have I suggested? No, i
Don't want to chicken out now come on, pal
The clock's running

Hasn't religious faith just as often
Served as a civilizing influence?
Sinatra: Remember that leering
Cursing lynch mob
In Little Rock reviling a meek
Innocent little 12-year-old Negro girl
As she tried to
Enroll in public school? Weren't they -
Or most of them - devout churchgoers? I
Detest the two-faced who
Pretend liberality but
Are practiced bigots in their
Own mean little spheres
I didn't tell my daughter whom to marry
But I'd have broken her
Back if she had had big eyes for a bigot as
I see it, man is a
Product of his conditioning
And the social forces which mold his
Morality and conduct - including
Racial prejudice - are influenced more
By material things like food
And economic necessities than by the
Fear and awe and bigotry
Generated by the high priests of
Commercialized superstition now don't
Get me wrong i'm for decency -
Period i'm for anything and
Everything that bodes love and consideration
For my fellow man
But when lip service to some
Mysterious deity permit's bestiality on
Wednesday and absolution on Sunday
- cash me out

But aren't such spiritual hypocrites in a
Minority? Aren't most Americans fairly
Consistent in their conduct within the
Precepts of religious doctrine?

I've got no quarrel with men of
Decency at any level but
I can't believe that decency stems
Only from religion and
I can't help wondering how many
Public figures make avowals of
Religious faith to maintain an
Aura of respectability our
Civilization, such as it is
Was shaped by religion
And the men who aspire to public
Office anyplace in the free
World must make obeisance to God
Or risk immediate opprobrium our
Press accurately reflects the religious
Nature of our society
But you'll notice that it
Also carries the articles and
Advertisements of astrology and
Hokey Elmer Gantry revivalists we
In America pride
Ourselves on freedom of the press, but every
Day I see, and so do you
This kind of dishonesty and distortion not
Only in this area but
In reporting - about guys
Like me, for instance
Which is of minor importance except to
Me but also in reporting world
News how can a free people
Make decisions without facts? If
The press reports world news as
They report about me, we're in trouble

Are you saying that

No, wait, let me finish have you thought of
The chance I'm taking by
Speaking out this way? Can you
Imagine the deluge of crank letters, curses
Threats and obscenities I'll receive
After these remarks gain
General circulation? Worse, the boycott of
My records, my films
Maybe a picket line at my opening at
The Sands why? Because I've dared
To say that love and decency are
Not necessarily concomitants of
Religious fervor

If you think you're stepping over the line
Offending your public or
Perhaps risking economic suicide, shall we
Cut this off now
Erase the tape and start over
Along more antiseptic lines?

No, let's let it run i've
Thought this way for years
Ached to say these things whom
Have I harmed by
What I've said? What moral defection
Have I suggested? No, i
Don't want to chicken out now come on, pal
The clock's running

All right, then
Let's move on to another delicate
Subject: disarmament how do you
Feel about the necessity and
Possibility of achieving it?

Well, that's like apple pie and mother - how
Can you be against it? After all
Despite the universal and unanimous
Assumption that both powers
- Russia and the United States -
Already have stockpiled more nuclear
Weaponry than is
Necessary to vaporize the entire planet
Each power continues to build
Improve and enlarge it's terrifying
Arsenal for the first time in history
Man has developed the means with which
To expunge all life in
One shuddering instant and, brother, no
One gets a pass, no one hides from this one
But the question is
Not so much whether disarmament
Is desirable or
Even whether it can be achieved, but whether
- if we were able to achieve it
- we would be better off
Or perhaps infinitely worse off

Are you suggesting that disarmament might
Be detrimental to peace?

Yes, in a certain very delicate
Sense look, I'm a realist, or at least
I fancy myself one just as I
Believe that religion doesn't always work
So do I feel that
Disarmament may be completely
Beyond man's capacity to live
With let's forget
For a moment the complex problems we might
Face in converting from a cold war
To a peace economy let's examine disarmament
In terms of man's political
Social and philosophical conditioning let's
Say that somehow the
UN is able to achieve a disarmament program
Acceptable to all nations let's imagine
A few years from now
Total global disarmament but
Imagine as well the gnawing doubts
Suspicions and nerve-wracking tensions which
Must, inevitably
Begin to fill the void: the fear that
The other side - or perhaps some
Third power - is secretly arming or still
Holding a few bombs with which
To surprise and overcome the other but I
Firmly believe that nuclear war is absolutely
Impossible i don't think anyone in the
World wants a nuclear war -
Not even the Russians they and we and
The nth countries - as nuclear strategists
Refer to future nuclear powers - face the
Incontrovertible certainty of lethal
Retaliation for
Any nuclear strike i can 't believe for
A moment that the idiot exists
In any nation that will push the
First button - not even accidentally

You foresee no possibility of world
War or of effective disarmament?

I'm not an industrialist or an economist I
Know I'm way out of my depth
When I attempt even to
Comprehend the complexity
Of shifting the production of a
Country from war to peace but if somehow
All those involved in production of
Implements of destruction were
Willing to accept
Reason as well as reasonable profit
I think that a shift in
Psychology might be possible and
If this were to happen
I believe that the deep-seated terror in the
Hearts of most people due to the
Constant threat of total
Destruction would disappear
The result would be a more
Positive, less greedy
Less selfish and more loving
Approach to survival
I can tell you this much
From personal experience and observation:
Hate solves no
Problems it only creates them but listen
You've been asking me a lot of questions
So let me ask you a question
I posed to Mike Romanoff the
Other night you know, mike is quite a
Serious thinker when we spend
An evening together
We play an intellectual chess
Game touching on all topics, including those
We are discussing here anyway
I asked Mike what would happen if a summit
Meeting of all the leaders in every
Country in the world was
Called, including Red China
At the UN further suppose that
Each leader brings with him his top aides:
Kennedy brings Rusk, Khrushchev
Brings Gromyko, mao brings Chou all these
Cats are together in one room
Then - boom! Somebody blows up
The mother building no more
Leaders no more deputies the question I asked
Mike, and the one I ask you
Is: What would happen to the world?
Playboy: You tell us

I told Mike I thought it might be the only
Chance the world has for
Survival but Mike just
Shook his head and said, "Frank
You're very sick"
Maybe so until someone lights
The fuse, however
I think that continuation of cold
War preparedness might be
More effective to maintain the
Peace than the dewy-eyed
Notion of total disarmament i also
Wonder if "total" disarmament includes
Chemical and bacteriological weapons -
Which, as you know
Can be ju st as lethal as nuclear
Weapons card players have a saying: "It's all
Right to play if you keep
Your eyes on the deck" - which
Is another way of saying
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"

Do you feel, then
That nuclear testing should be continued?

Absolutely not i think it's got to stop
And I think it will stop - because it
Has to stop the name-calling in the
UN and the finger-pointing
At peace conferences is just a lot of
Diplomatic bull both sides have to
Live on this planet, and leaders in all
Countries know that their children and
Grandchildren have to live here
Too i suspect that when the limit's of
Strontium 90 in the atmosphere get
Really dangerous
Scientists in both camps will persuade
The politicians to call a
Final halt to testing - probably
At precisely the same time
With no urging from the other side

You spoke a moment ago of the
Fear and suspicion that might
Nullify any plan for lasting and
Effective disarmament isn't continuing
Nuclear preparedness - with or without
Further testing - likely to
Engender these emotions on an
Even more dangerous scale?

Fear is the enemy of logic there
Is no more debilitating
Crushing, self-defeating
Sickening thing in the world - to an
Individual or to a nation if we
Continue to fear the Russians, and if
They continue to fear us, then we're
Both in big trouble neither side will
Be able to make logical, reasoned decisions
I think, however
That their fear and concern over the
Ideological balance of power in some
Areas is far from irrational our concern
Over a Sovietized Cuba 90
Miles from Key West, for instance
Must be equated with Russian concern over our
Missile bases surrounding them it is proper
That we should be deeply concerned
But we must be able to see
Their side of the coin -
And not let this concern turn
Into fear on either side

On a practical level, how would you combat
Communist expansion into areas such as Cuba
Laos and the emerging African nations?

It strikes me as being so ridiculously
Simple: Stop worrying about communism just
Get rid of the conditions that nurture
It sidestepping Marxian philosophy and
Dialectical vagaries
I think that communism can fester
Only wherever and whenever it
Is encouraged to breed - not
Just by the Communists themselves
But by depressed social and economic
Conditions: and we can always count on
The Communists to exploit those conditions
Poverty is probably the greatest asset the
Communists have wherever it exists
Anyplace in the world
You have a potential
Communist breeding ground
It figures that if a
Man is frustrated in a material sense
His family hungry, he suffers
He broods and he becomes susceptible
To the blandishments of any
Ideology that promises to take
Him off the hook

Do you share with the American
Right Wing an equal concern
About the susceptibility of our own
Country to Communist designs?

Well, if you're talking about
That poor, beaten, dehumanized
Discriminated-against guy
In some blighted Tobacco Road
Down in the South
He's certainly in the market
For offers of self-improvement
But you can't make me believe that a
Machinist in Detroit, ending a 40-hour week
Climbing into his '63 Chevy
Driving to a steak barbecue behind his
$25, 000 home in a tree-lined subdivision
About to begin a weekend with his
Well-fed, well-clothed family
Is going to trade what he's got
For a Party card in
America - except for tiny pockets
Of privation which still
Persist - Khrushchev has as much
Chance of succeeding as he
Has of making 100 straight passes
At the crap table

In combating Communist expansion
Into underdeveloped areas here and abroad
What can we do except to offer massive
Material aid and guidance of the
Kind we've been providing since the end
Of World War I I?

I don't know i'm no economist i don't
Pretend to have much background in political
Science but this much I know: Attending
Rallies sponsored by 110-percent
Anti-Communist cultists
Or donning white sheets and riding with the
Klan - the one that's spelled
With a "K" - isn't the answer
All I know is that a
Nation with our standard of living, with our
Social Security system, TVA, farm parity
Health plans and unemployment
Insurance can afford
To address it'self to the cancers
Of starvation, substandard housing
Educational voids and second-class
Citizenship that still exist in many
Backsliding areas of our own country when
We've cleaned up these blemishes
Then we can go out with
A clean conscience to see
Where else in the world we can help hunger is
Inexcusable in a world where grain
Rots in silos and butter
Turns rancid while being held
For favorable commodity indices

Is American support of the UN one of the ways
In which we can uplift
Global economic conditions?
Sinatra: It seems to me that a lot of us
Consider the UN a private club - ours
Of course - with gentlemen's
Agreements just like
Any other exclusive club only instead
Of excluding a person, a race or a religion
The members of the UN have the
Power to exclude entire nations
I don't happen
To think you can kick 800, 000
000 Chinese under the rug and simply pretend
That they don't exist because they do
If the UN is to be truly representative
Then it must accept all the nations
Of the world if it doesn't represent
The united nations of the world
Then what the hell have you
Got? Not democracy - and
Certainly not world government
Everybody seems to have forgotten that
President Kennedy, before he became
President, in his book, strategy of Peace
Plainly advocated recognition of Red China so
I'm not too far out on the limb, am I?

With or without mainland China in the UN
What do you feel are the prospects for
An eventual American rapprochement
With Russia?

Sinatra: I'm a singer
Not a prophet or a diplomat
Ask the experts or read
The Rockefeller brothers' reports but
Speaking just as a
Layman, an ordinary guy who
Thinks and worries, i think that if
We can stay out of war for the next 10 years
We'll never have another war from all
I've read and seen recently
I'm betting that within the next decade
The Russians will be on
The credit- card kick just as we
Are they're going to want
Color TV, their wives are going
To want electrified kitchens
Their kids are going to want
Hot rods even Russian
Girls are getting hip I've seen photos of
Them at Russian beach resorts, and it looks
Just like the Riviera they're thinning down
And I see they're
Going the bikini route when GUM
Department store in Moscow
Starts selling bikinis, we've got
A fighting chance
Because that means the girls are
Interested in being girls
And the boys are going to stop thinking
About communes and begin thinking connubially
I've always had a
Theory that whenever guys and
Gals start swinging
They begin to lose interest in
Conquering the world they
Just want a comfortable pad
And stereo and wheels
And their thoughts turn to
The good things of life - not
To war they loosen up
They live and they're more apt
To let live dig?

We dig

Sinatra: You know, I'd love to visit
Russia, and sometime later, China
Too i figure the more I know about
Them and the more they know about me
The better chance we have of
Living in the same world
In peace i don't intend to
Go there with a mission
To sell the American way of life: I'm not
Equipped to get into that kind of
Discussion about government but I'd
Love to go and show them American music i'd
Take Count Basie and Ella Fitzgerald with me
And we'd do what we do best
We'd wail up a storm with real
American jazz so that their kids
Could see what kind of music our kids go for
Because I'm sure that kids are
The same all over the
World i'm betting that they'd dig
Us and that's got
To create some kind of good will, and man
A little good will is something we could
Use right now all it takes
Is good will and a smile to breach
That language barrier when the Moiseyev
Dancers were in Los Angeles eddie and
Liz Fisher gave a party for
Them, and although I couldn't speak
A word of Russian, i got along fine
I just said, "Hello, baby" to the
Dancers and they shouted, "Allo
Babee" back at me we had a ball

Frank, you've expressed some negative
Views on human nature in the course of this
Conversation yet one gets the impression that
- despite the bigotry, hypocrisy, stupidity
Cruelty and fear you've talked about -
You feel there are still some
Grounds for hope about the destiny of
Homo sapiens is that right?

Sinatra: Absolutely i'm never cynical
Never without optimism about the
Future the history
Of mankind proves that at some point
The people have their innings
And I think we're about to come up to bat now
I think we can make it if we live and
Let live and love one another -
I mean really love if
You don't know the guy on
The other side of the
World, love him anyway because he's just
Like you he has the
Same dreams, the same hopes and
Fears it's one world
Pal we're all neighbors but didn't somebody
Once go up onto a
Mountain long ago and say the
Same thing to the world?